I have a question, maybe more of a comment, that could apply to both the second harmonic and the Slow Rate Ramping topics. The assumption appears to be that the dynamometer and the UUT cell are both linear from zero through the lower load point and to the upper load point. I have never seen this to be the case. We setup the static calibration specific to the two end points because of this. If the load cell has a slight concavity to its curve and the dynamometer a slight convexity (for lack of a better term but it should give the visual. The error seen between them in the middle of the curve would be present and in the same direction every cycle. This would look the same as the second harmonic. If from the low load point to zero the two have different curves this could also explain the error during the slow rate ramp. To analyze this and ensure our model does in fact have an unexplained issue, a static calibration would need to be done with data points from zero to the first data point, I would suggest at least 5 total points including zero and the lowest data point. Also to see errors between the endpoints a static calibration with data taken ever 5% of the span from lower endpoint - 5% of span throughout the span to +5% of the upper endpoint.
I like Charles Hoppe's idea a lot (look Up). My guess is that we are not talking about much of a linearity difference to get some of the observed behaviors. Also I suspect that dynamometer quality may not be at the same level as a company's commercial product. Not that it can't be. Just that there may be more variability.
Happily, if correct that probably does mean that it can be expected to be stable in size regardless of frequency. How though will it behave relative to amplitude. Also what about R=0.1 vs R=-1.0 issues? Ah yes, just more things to add to our question list and then whittle away one at a time.
Since we establish the calibration to the specific end levels of a specific run, I do not understand why there would be a question of how it behaves relative to amplitude. For any given amplitude we have a static calibration for its endpoints. When you move from an R = 0.1 to an R = -1 you establish a new gain and offset(or whatever your calibration parameters are) for that specific amplitude and then establish that the correlation meets the specification. The error due to nonlinearity will change for different endpoints, but it is an academic curiosity and does not really factor into whether the E467 or NASM 1312 before it are valid standards.
Good point. Since users want to run a minimum of verification tests and then operate over a broad "unverified" range based on I am simply trying to get as much value as possible out of each test setup.
My gut says that this is a low priority issue to pursue; but still a real phenomenon to understand at the right time and place.
Thanks for using these comments! I think it will really help let others into a conversation even late in the process.
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Analysis of data supplied by Pete Bailey. It is a stepped sine test. Data includes dynamometer AND accelerometer. This is an excellent illustration of the idea of using acceleration as a quick dynamic force verification aid.
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The linearity of transducers may affect our ability to make broad assessments of a system's behavior. More work is needed. See Charles Hoppe's note below which got this topic rolling.
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Charles had a few questions related to the recent test summary video. The initial list is going to be parsed and then we will work through each topic separately.
Launcher (N167680820)
Top*: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/
Start Video: https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/1128524980
======
Start Notes: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/167452017
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I have a question, maybe more of a comment, that could apply to both the second harmonic and the Slow Rate Ramping topics. The assumption appears to be that the dynamometer and the UUT cell are both linear from zero through the lower load point and to the upper load point. I have never seen this to be the case. We setup the static calibration specific to the two end points because of this. If the load cell has a slight concavity to its curve and the dynamometer a slight convexity (for lack of a better term but it should give the visual. The error seen between them in the middle of the curve would be present and in the same direction every cycle. This would look the same as the second harmonic. If from the low load point to zero the two have different curves this could also explain the error during the slow rate ramp. To analyze this and ensure our model does in fact have an unexplained issue, a static calibration would need to be done with data points from zero to the first data point, I would suggest at least 5 total points including zero and the lowest data point. Also to see errors between the endpoints a static calibration with data taken ever 5% of the span from lower endpoint - 5% of span throughout the span to +5% of the upper endpoint.
Transducer linearity issues
Up: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/166267730
Topic: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/166284426
********
I like Charles Hoppe's idea a lot (look Up). My guess is that we are not talking about much of a linearity difference to get some of the observed behaviors. Also I suspect that dynamometer quality may not be at the same level as a company's commercial product. Not that it can't be. Just that there may be more variability.
Happily, if correct that probably does mean that it can be expected to be stable in size regardless of frequency. How though will it behave relative to amplitude. Also what about R=0.1 vs R=-1.0 issues? Ah yes, just more things to add to our question list and then whittle away one at a time.
This was added during the video demo on 251012.
Here's a lower level reply.
Since we establish the calibration to the specific end levels of a specific run, I do not understand why there would be a question of how it behaves relative to amplitude. For any given amplitude we have a static calibration for its endpoints. When you move from an R = 0.1 to an R = -1 you establish a new gain and offset(or whatever your calibration parameters are) for that specific amplitude and then establish that the correlation meets the specification. The error due to nonlinearity will change for different endpoints, but it is an academic curiosity and does not really factor into whether the E467 or NASM 1312 before it are valid standards.
Good point. Since users want to run a minimum of verification tests and then operate over a broad "unverified" range based on I am simply trying to get as much value as possible out of each test setup.
My gut says that this is a low priority issue to pursue; but still a real phenomenon to understand at the right time and place.
Thanks for using these comments! I think it will really help let others into a conversation even late in the process.
Document Notes
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FAQ
E467 Validation
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What was the frequency sweep rate? (e.g octave/s, Hz/s)
It was 0.25 Hz/s.
Terminology
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Intro to Validate E467-01 (N163210515)
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Outline
Up: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/162919733
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Validation Materials
Up: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/162919870
Analyses
Up: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/175018596
Analyze PB 251030 data
Up: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/175018931
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Analysis of data supplied by Pete Bailey. It is a stepped sine test. Data includes dynamometer AND accelerometer. This is an excellent illustration of the idea of using acceleration as a quick dynamic force verification aid.
This is a reply to the Outline comment.
Summary
Up: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/162919733
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Getting started with discussions and tours
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Formats
Topic List (N166070137)
Up: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/165668389
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Second Harmonic (N166075369)
Dynamometer Scaling (N166075293)
Transients (N166075232)
Slow Rate Ramping (N166075153)
System Tuning Effects (N166075086)
Data analysis method (N166074740)
Frequency sweep methodology (N166074466)
System configuration (N166073375)
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6Ys4u Library Cards: (N167338461)
Tours: (N166269383)
6Ys4u Library Cards: (N167338461)
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Start Here: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/167340194
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Quick Links (N167340280)
Up: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/167338461
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Start Here (N167340194)
Up: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/167338461
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IMPORTANT SUB-THREADS
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Scavenger Hunts: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/167419893
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Sample Feedback: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/167404299
Scavenger Hunts (N167419893)
Up: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/167340194
Top: https://albrightj.substack.com/i/175281591/topic-list
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One way to learn about 6Ys4u library cards is to go on a scavenger hunt. There are 4 elements to the hunt:
1) Watch mission video
2) Open Resource pdf
3) Do the mission
4) Submit participant report
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DETAILED INSTRUCTIONS
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STEP 1:
Watch the video below to get started:
Mission guide: https://vimeo.com/1128303919
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STEP 2:
Go to Files @: http://fjaa4u.org/fjaalabs
Open filepath Office/Document Archive/N167419893
Open file specified in your Mission Guide video.
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STEP 3:
Do the steps from the video using the resources specified there.
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STEP 4:
Once you reach this comment, add your entry to the Participant Report for this item.
Reports00: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/167423502
Sample Feedback
Up: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/167340194
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Navigator (N167340125)
Up: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/167338461
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Share Text (N167340039)
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Use share text as material for the reader to copy and paste into their own documentation/communications. In that manner they can quickly and easily attach your material as background to what they are working on.
Picture (N167339856)
Up: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/167338461
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This is often the focus of the library card and associated deck of cards/slides. Including annotations with lettered blocks on the picture and titles/notes links for each one is a great way to interest the reader and then let them quickly get more into the material as they wish.
Title Block (N167338814)
Up: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/167338461
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Put the title, author, and version date/number here.
Measurement Linearity
Up: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/166070137
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The linearity of transducers may affect our ability to make broad assessments of a system's behavior. More work is needed. See Charles Hoppe's note below which got this topic rolling.
Go Up from here
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Charles Hoppe's initial hypothesis
Source: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/166267730
Up: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/166284426
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Tours (N166269383)
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Sample Test (tour104153)
Up: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/166269383
Video: https://vimeo.com/1124656182
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This gives an overview of test results for a typical sine sweep test.
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Top: https://albrightj.substack.com/i/175281591/tours
Suggestions: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/167152062
Suggestions (tour104153)
Up: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/167085813
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Please reply to this comment with ideas for how to improve this tour
Sample Tour: N166383289 < tour160238
Measurement Linearity discussion
Tour: Video link TBD
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This tour navigates through an active discussion, showing how the various elements connect to provide a seamless experience from initial email all the way to the top document.
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Making Tours (N166281298 < tour110453).
How to make a tour.
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Tour: TBD
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Videos: (N166277093 < tour105718)
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Tour: https://vimeo.com/1126677286
Notes: Watch the tour video to see how you can get the most out of a tour video. In particular, take note of chapters and the transcript. Both those features quickly put written words around the audio, making for a fast way to locate yourself.
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Start Here Tour (N166271370 < tour104850)
Up: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/166269383
Top: https://albrightj.substack.com/i/175281591/tours
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Second Harmonic (N166075369)
Up: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/166070137
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Charles Hoppe has some insights regarding this (A).
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A: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/166267730
Dynamometer Scaling (N166075293)
Up: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/166070137
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Transients (N166075232)
Up: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/166070137
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Slow Rate Ramping (N166075153)
Up: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/166070137
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Charles Hoppe has an idea for why this is happening. (A)
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A: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/166267730
System Tuning Effects (N166075086)
Up: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/166070137
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Data analysis method (N166074740)
Up: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/166070137
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Frequency sweep methodology (N166074466)
Up: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/166070137
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System configuration (N166073375)
Up: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/166070137
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Email discussions
Up: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/165668389
********
Email discussions will add a comment here so that readers know what threads are out there. The discussion will continue as it always has, in a series of emails. The role of the comment is to provide the "author" of the thread to post highlights and key conclusions as they feel the general reader may want to know.
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Hoppe-251013a (N166063577)
Up: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/166062936
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Charles had a few questions related to the recent test summary video. The initial list is going to be parsed and then we will work through each topic separately.
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Share Text
E467 Validation
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Up: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/162919826
Top: https://albrightj.substack.com/i/175281591/share-text
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Guide
E467 Validation
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Up: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/162919826
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Get the guide from the Files location identified below. It will supply a link to a video that provides an overview of the guide.
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Files: http://knuuz4u.org/fjaalabs
@Office/Document Archive/ fjaa110452
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WIP
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FAQ
E467 Validation
Top: https://albrightj.substack.com/i/175281591/faq
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This is a test reply. I will delete it later.
Under Construction
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Up: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/162919826
Target Milestone List
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Up: https://albrightj.substack.com/p/e467-validation/comment/162919787
Top: https://albrightj.substack.com/i/175281591/target-milestone-list